Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, I'm Deirdre Breckenridge and welcome to Communication Makeover, where intentional communication creates breakthrough in your life and in business. Today's show focuses on the story. Everybody has a story inside of them. But what happens when you can't find your path? It's not easy. Sometimes you feel lost when it comes to publishing your story and getting your work out there. If you can't find the doors to open to publishers, then your story doesn't go anywhere. And that's where Brian Honigman comes in. Today I'm going to be coaching Brian as he moves through the, the publishing process, finding his journey. Brian, welcome.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: So grateful to be here and get to collaborate today.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Yes, it's great. And Brian, you're a marketing consultant. You're also a career coach and you're embarking on this big journey. Tell me a little bit about the experience so far.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Sure. So I feel like it's a unique one. I've been luck, luck lucky to be in the privilege where I've had multiple book publishers reach out at different points in my career, but nothing has ever panned out in terms of, you know, actually landing a book deal and moving forward.
So I've been writing for, in my career for 15 years about marketing, about business and freelancing.
I would say a couple years ago, had major publishers reach out based off of what I was publishing saying, have you ever thought about a book? Would you like to come and discuss it? Went through the whole process, got an agent, made a proposal, it was shopped around and all that great stuff, but no one ended up biting or, you know, being interested in that particular idea. So it was tabled.
I, you know, tested out a bunch of other stuff between now and then. And then recently, I would say the end of like 2023, another publisher reached out about collaborating together after then seeing an article do well, and I put together another proposal and put it out there and kind of got positive feedback, but not, you know, that they wanted to move forward. So I would love your support in kind of figuring out where do I go from here.
I have at other times tried to take the self publishing route and I'm confident I could do it. But when it comes down to sitting down and writing a chapter or, you know, actually doing the work, I find myself really unmotivated. Without the incentive of, you know, compensation and a guarantee, this is going out into the world in a certain way without the, without another, the accountability of another partner. I find it really difficult to go down that particular path. So I know there's a lot there, but I just love to talk through how do we make this happen. I'd love to be kind of in your shoes where you have many books out there published from. I think some self published, I notice other ones are with publishers trying to figure out what makes the most sense for me.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Okay, so you've tried a couple of publishers and do you feel that you're at such an impasse that you want to try other directions? Now? I know you, you mentioned that the accountability and it is difficult. It's different. Self publishing is different. Are you still open to possibly a larger publisher, possibly self publishing? What are your feelings right at this moment?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: At this moment I'd still wanted to collaborate with a publisher of some kind for a variety of reasons. Like I mentioned accountability. I want to be compensated at least a little bit initially to put the time and effort into putting this out there.
I want someone to help with fine tuning the actual details of the book and the concept so that it is of most value to the readers. I recognize in some ways I could build all this stuff on the self publishing path. I just to date don't see it happening for me in terms of like being motivated enough to go down that route. I'm not saying I'm against it. I think it's a great path for folks and I've seen many people have a varying degree of success with it. But yeah, as of now I see myself more so still trying to get some kind of collaboration with a publisher as of now.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Okay, no, no, that's good because it says you still have the will and you want to move forward, which is really important.
There's a. What would you tell, what would you say if I told you that perhaps there's more choices than just the large publisher? Right. It's good so to know that there are some choices.
Tell me a little bit about your research speaking to people or uncovering possible avenues. Have you looked in different directions for sure?
[00:05:42] Speaker B: I've thought about, yeah. I mean I don't know if they all equal the same weight to the self publishing through Amazon and working with, you know, Penguin, you know, pub level publishers. I don't know if they hold the same weight, but I've looked at, you know, doing an audio own, like direct to audiobook, like an audio book through Audible or other audio platforms.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: How about.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: How about college textbooks? Just a little bit. I haven't done too much research into it. One of the places that we shopped my first proposal to was McGraw Hill, which I Think they actually have folded since then. But yeah, that's something I'd be open to.
Yeah. To have to think about what topic per se because it's not necessarily what. Yeah. Anyway, so something I hadn't given enough research to.
Yeah, those are some of the ones that come come to mind.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: So sometimes when I'm embarking down this path, especially when I was writing my last two books, I. I played a little game with myself and I tend to this game has to do with am I using my full mind? The mind is made up of your brain, your heart and your gut. And I want to play this game with you, Brian, and see if it just opens your eyes to what's the most important, which might be able to help you with a path. It's called what matters most. I don't want you to think too much. I'm going to say a word or a few words and you're just quickly going to rate whatever I say in terms of importance. One being doesn't matter. Five being. Yes, this really matters. Okay, so let me just go through the little list. Are you ready?
[00:07:42] Speaker B: I'm ready.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Okay. Prestige and credibility.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: 4.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Okay, how about control over the editing process and the book contents?
[00:07:56] Speaker B: 4.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Speed to market.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: 3.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Okay, creative process.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: 4.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: How about amount of royalties or percentage of royalties?
Pricing flexibility.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: 5.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Okay, thank you for playing. So stepping back, your highest levels are the amount of royalties, the pricing is important and that those were your fives. The fours are creative, prestige, control and speed to market, not so much. So when I look at speed to market, that's definitely could be a large publisher if you're on a three because they are slower. But there's something to be said about the other areas. And let's challenge a little bit. The large versus the small and the hybrid in between. Because if it's prestige control, the amount and the pricing, then self publishing could be a viable avenue. And self publishing, let's remember, doesn't necessarily have to be alone. There are hybrid publishers and they're fairly reasonable. You just have to find the right ones. How do you feel about those choices now?
[00:09:34] Speaker B: Definitely opens my eyes to another.
Another way to flex here and explore this avenue from. From a different mindset.
Something that pops up. I know you said not to think too much when I was reading and that's kind of my problem. I get caught up in the what ifs. But one thing that comes up for those small hybrid publishers is like if you don't get the prestige and you don't get the appropriate level of compensation, I don't necessarily know what the hybrid publishers are doing for me other than editing.
And then I don't really know editing otherwise. In some cases I've seen you have to pay for those services. And I'm like, I don't know. So those are some things that pop up with that. Those are the kind of the negatives. But I don't know every hybrid publisher out there. This is like a whole other area of exploration for me. So there's, there's two things that play there that come top of mind.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Well, that's good because knowing perhaps that you do have some other choices is a great way to open up the pathway, at least to explore that. That's number one. And I think that there's something to be said. I don't know if you know this, but even someone who runs in our circles or who did. David Meerman Scott. Do you realize that his book, the New Rules of Marketing and PR, that was self published back in the day and it was, he put it together. I think he shopped around blog posts and then was picked up by a publisher. But on that note, Brian, we're just going to take a pause. Stay with me. You're going to come back right after the break. And everybody stay tuned. We will be back in a moment.
Welcome back. As we were discussing before, everybody has a story, but how do you get the story out there and what's the right path?
What's the path to the publisher? So let's dive back in and continue the conversation with Brian.
Hi, Brian. Okay, we were talking about your path.
Yes. And we were opening up some choices, some possibilities. And I think that I was sharing a little bit about somebody who had written a book who self published the then got it published. And as I was deciding between large publisher and smaller publishers, I started to poke around and I was really surprised to find out that Mark Twain was working with big publishers and he then self published his book about Huckleberry Finn. I think it was Margaret Atwood who self published before she was picked up. And she was Handmaid's Tale and even Beatrix Potter. So that made me feel a little bit better in the credibility department about, you know, how I wanted to move forward. But for you, let, let's pick it up. We played our little game and let's talk about some decision making and how you've made this. This is a big decision for you. Would, would you say that?
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. It's an important future extension of the business.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Right. So how have you made some decisions in the past when you were at an impasse.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: I mean, similar to what we're doing together is trying to map out what the options are, choose the most viable options. Maybe it's two paths to success and then kind of add action steps to those paths to try and make it happen and just go for it.
And that's what I've done to a degree. I mean it hasn't, hasn't worked. Right. So I'm not saying it's been perfect, I have tested. But something I do want to call out that you brought up with, was it David Meerman Scott's initial book being self published and picked up. That definitely resonates with me because it's like a special circumstance, like something unique comparative to, okay, there's the self published path, there's getting published by a big publisher, there's getting working with a hybrid publisher. But you know, there's all these different, special, unique arrangements, creative solutions here at play. And that's always really enticing to me. So that's something I want to do better research about now that you bring it up because it's very motivating for me to like solve the problem puzzle, if you will.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Well, that's interesting. There's two things that stand out for me. First, you said two paths to success and that special circumstance where somebody who is well known in the marketing field and who is respected. I'm actually speaking right now with someone who's well known in the marketing field and respected.
So that's something to you. You have a history in marketing. You've been writing for how many years would you say?
[00:15:04] Speaker B: At least 15 years.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: 15 years. And would you say that writing is a passion, a hobby? Is it just something that you have to do for your marketing clients, for yourself? Talk to me about that.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah, smiles. Makes me smile when you say that because it's really a mix. Like in some ways I find it to be creatively fulfilling. Other times I find it to be a job.
Other ways I don't really think about the craft, I think about the outcome. Like it helps me share ideas with others and provide value to different kinds of readers. It helps me show versus tell in my consulting coaching business. I can say how great I am all day, but someone will actually believe it by looking at my thoughts and my perspective and experience on something in marketing or another topic and read it for themselves and be like that did resonate with me. So Honestly, it's over 15 years. There's been moments where I've been burnt out and I'm like, I'd rather do no writing.
Other times I was like, I'm a writer, but I don't know. Something that does come up, but it's like not a blocker really. It's just like I often hear people talking so emphatically about their writing and how it's their main driving force. Without a doubt, it's not my main driving force.
It's like I like to connect with people and writing is like what has really jump started my career from over a decade ago till now. And it's something that is like very connected to all my work. Right. In coaching, I'm like taking notes for courses. I'm writing scripts. So it's mixed emotions, mixed feelings on the subject of writing.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: And you wouldn't be human and you wouldn't be completely transparent if you didn't say that. So I think we all have our times where we feel really good about writing or sometimes it does feel like a job because you have to be in that creative mindset and you have to have that energy and find your best times to write. I do think you said something that's interesting about how it's the connection where it's not the passion, writing is the connection which creates the passion so that that's strong. And because you have such a history of writing and connection, who's to say that it wouldn't be a special case? It's probably a higher probability that your writing and the connections that you make could be a different type of path. Talk to me about when you said two paths.
Whenever you have to make a decision, it's this way or that way. What could that look like in for publishing and opening doors In a perfect world?
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I'm not married to two. I'm just saying, like it's not possible to traverse all these pathways. But I had to pick two. I mean, I've been trying this more traditional approach where folks have or I don't know if it's traditional, but based off of what I'm putting out there, some kind of editors at publishers have reached out and I'm following the process from there.
That's one path to keep going down.
A takeaway from that path is like, I have something, there's some commercial interest, or I have a good idea, there's something there. And why am I waiting for them to tell me, these gatekeepers, if you will? Why am I. Why am I letting them tell me you can do a book? Another path could be pitching them on my own terms, on my own timeline. Instead of waiting for these circumstances to arise.
As a marketing person, as a solopreneur independent contractor, I don't do a lot of selling per se. I mean, once I'm talking with the client, I'll of course, like pitch them and expand on what the project is. But for the most part, I'm putting ideas out there and letting people come to me. So I don't do a ton of client outreach. I have done it. I'm not against it. I think it's great and has purpose. So it's something I could do more strategically in this case. That's definitely something that's coming up. And then just as you kind of lit a fire in me a little bit today around this, like, maybe it's a third path. I'm not married to two. Is like, where is there some kind of hybrid scenario here? Hybrid mix of publishers, publishing. You know, just because I have mixed feelings on that direction doesn't mean I know every kind of player in that space. So that's another one. So, yeah, those are kind of three that are percolating. I'm just still not on the fully self publishing path.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: What stops you or concerns you the most for each path?
[00:20:28] Speaker B: So what's really important to me is like, I don't want to waste time.
I think that is the.
Yeah, like I want to be compensated for my time.
And that's something like, scary about the self publishing direction.
And that comes up, you know, will I have wasted time pick, you know, that comes up for the other paths in different ways. Am I wasting time pitching all these different players, like to have interest in my, in my ideas and my concept for a book?
Am I wasting time putting these proposals together when they do reach out? Like, yeah, I don't know. That's something that comes up.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: What do you.
When you are embarking on a project with a client and we've. I know when we start on a project, sometimes the way that it starts out isn't always the way that it finishes. But have you ever had it happen where you create something for them and the end product, you have to figure out a different way to use it, but you still end up using it.
Do you think the client feels that that's a waste of time or is that still good because it's solid content that you're getting out there in another way? And if the process was good and everybody enjoyed it, what do you think they would be feeling?
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. I think they would be feeling. I would be feeling in that circumstance. Still satisfied with the outcome. For sure. There's still. And I, and I recognize that and that. That's a good point. You bring up that regardless of kind of how it all plays out, there's some way that it'll help others, provide value to me, provide value to it if I have any partners or not.
And that's comforting. I want to make sure that it's of use most of all.
Yeah, no, that's a good. I think they would feel just as ultimately, no one else has the same expectations on this compared to me, compared to any author. Right. Exactly. And. And I'm not married to one vision for it. It's just.
Yeah. I just can't imagine it.
I definitely need that accountability. I have a hard time thinking about paying somebody to help me be accountable.
It's caught up in, in my work as a solopreneur independent contractor. It's like everything I work on has a. Has a.
It's not always clear, it's amorphous at times, but a monetary value associated with it. So I understand how it fits in my schedule. But what I'm hearing from you, it's like maybe you should expand what that.
Expand that definition. Maybe in this case because this is something special.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Special. I'm going to ask you just to hold your thoughts. Brian, we're going to go to a break. Stay tuned. And we'll be back foreign.
Welcome back. We're going to dive back into the conversation with Brian because he sees some choices. He has carved out a few paths to publishing and now we're going to get to some action steps.
Brian, glad you stuck around. This is really good because in the last segment, those choices, they're popping out and you're seeing that something special is here and something can happen. So how are you feeling right now?
[00:24:29] Speaker B: I'm feeling like I'm getting some clarity on how I. My mindset around this project, this journey to getting a book out there that I'm proud of.
And I feel like there's more work for me to do to continue to explore some of the paths we've come up with and get more clear on what I'm looking for.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Okay. Now, something that came up before when we were talking the accountability piece, and I'm going to challenge you a little bit here because as an entrepreneur, you are accountable to different clients. Deadlines. I can't even imagine how many deadlines you have. I know that you're also a LinkedIn learning instructor and when you do courses, there's deadlines and scripts how are you accountable? What do you do?
[00:25:33] Speaker B: I follow the timeline. I, you know, once we start some kind of engagement, no matter what kind of thing, type of project, have the final date, the kind of sub dates prior to that and different milestones and I kind of make a work back schedule, if you will, of what are all the different tasks we need to do to get to that point.
I've tried this on my own, saying let's just table the publisher's part.
Let's do self publishing just to get this out there. Like I'm confident it will give me value in some, some way, but every time I'm still not able to follow it.
There's what the difference is with a client or a partner or on less special tasks that I've worked on myself, they're completely self guided. With no partner. Is that like, well, hang on. With partners and clients, it's like I don't want to let them down.
I don't want to ever be known reputationally as that. And then just like it's a kind of personal thing too. Like it's want to be a reliable collaborator. And then when I'm working on smaller, less special stuff that has no accountability partner just kind of get it done on my schedule, it's not as rigid.
So yeah, it's interesting that this larger special thing, it just, it feels really heavy and hard for me to work on. Yeah. And I'm trying to break it down into smaller parts and that's something I need to do better at for sure. Kind of in line with the work back schedule I talked about for clients.
I just know for a fact if I have a publisher, have someone that I'm, you know, contractually real, you know, need to, to deliver for, I don't want to let down the people I'm working with, it would just give me so much more, I guess, confidence and, and energy to move forward and ahead. So yeah, that's some of, some of my thoughts that are coming up for the accountability part.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Well, I think it's hard to be accountable when you've got this huge project that you're not sure how to break it down and all pieces. What about some of your good friends in marketing who have published books? Do you think that some of your friends might be able to help you break it down and to see a picture that doesn't look as daunting and stifling and kind of get you over the, oh my gosh, here's a little chunk that I can attack. Looking at my book in terms of sections and chapters and moving it in a fashion that might feel better as a special project and having a special person in your life perhaps to talk to who can say, hey Brian, I might not be your client, but how'd you do today? And you self reflecting with that person. Could that be a possible action step?
[00:28:44] Speaker B: For sure, yeah. Why does it have to be someone that's paying me? Why can it be you, another colleague, my husband, whoever, Someone in my on my side that I fully trust to be like hey, I'm holding you accountable, don't let me down. Like that would certainly be helpful and something I haven't really explored that touches on, you know, I like I work by myself most of the time, so I'm kind of used to taking it on on my own. And then yeah, I think you're right.
I've talked at nauseam with all different kinds of colleagues and friends about their books, but I haven't really talked about this particular part of it of like how can I break it down to make it happen for me. I have all these really interesting privileges around this scenario. Like it's very lucky and, and I'm grateful for the publishers to reach out and stuff, but I just haven't been able to actually make it turn into anything. And I think others who have navigated this process and broken it down in a methodical way could really help me put me on the right, right path.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: Yes. There's people who care about you, who are your friends out there in the marketing world who would definitely help because I find that our circle and even extended people are willing to help because they know at some point you're going to give back and that's what it's about. I do know that there's lots of choices in terms of should I be writing this book and because I'm so passionate and I have got to get this story out and then I learn from my friends how to approach the publisher or do I let that publisher work with me on the topics and the chapters. I'm not sure your thoughts on that, but you could go either way. If you have a strong passion and you get enough friends to be your accountability buddies, you can nail that book. And then you have something to be saying. This is what it looks like. How do you feel about that?
[00:30:58] Speaker B: That brings up for me I just got to get started on, on whichever part that's what, that's what I heard there.
This brings me back. I was in a bookstore in Ireland randomly and I saw this career book and I was like wow, that looks like the COVID At least I bought it. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but the COVID and the way it's addressing careers in the modern age, it's like a cool business book. That would be the kind of one I would want. Not the, you know, stuffy one that, you know, traditionally, you know, might be boring, but like one that has like a nice mix of different approach. I'm like, that's so cool. That's the kind of thing I would love to see on the shelf from me. And of course, you know, not going to the topic, but. And I'm like, why can't I just start with the COVID If the COVID activated, it just activated me. And I was like, well, whatever. I know it's a lot, you know, starting with the end, but.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: Yeah, but what is creatively drives you.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that. That's starting to ring true to me. It's just like, I have to start. It doesn't really matter which direction of like, okay, do I talk to my friends first, then do article a week or start with the articles and whatever. Or a chapter a week. I think it just getting going and making sure you have those parts in the process. In some, at some point, it's the.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Momentum and it will increase as you dive in. And maybe it's not starting. I never started with an introduction. Never. That's not how it works. I usually picked an area that I felt really strongly in the book and then worked my way. The introduction is the last thing and the conclusion was the last thing too. It was all parts in between. But there's different ways. There's all different types of processes. What. What are some other steps that from this conversation, some takeaways or steps that you could possibly take?
[00:33:03] Speaker B: I mean, exploring the range of other options out there from one of the other hybrid players. I'm like, familiar with it to a degree. But, like, there's surely other directions to take. Continuing to explore those, like, special circumstances outside of like the traditional paths we're aware of. That's something that's a standout to me.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Maybe talking to people. If you do see the special circumstances approaching the authors, I mean, you're 66 degrees of separation away from anybody. Technically.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:33:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: That was my next thing. You're ahead of me. Like, meeting with these folks that have done something unique in the book space. I'm just talking to them about it and seeing, you know, what, what they'd be willing to share, I think would. Would go a long way. And similarly like tagging in accountability partners. Now, it doesn't always have to be a client who's paying me. It can be someone that's just on my side who wants to see me succeed. So those are some of the ones that are standing out for me right now.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Good. And how do you feel now? Is it a different feeling than when we started the discussion?
[00:34:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel more hopeful that it's possible because it still will always feel big because I deem it something that would be special. But I feel more hopeful that it's possible.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: That is really good to know. You're welcome. Brian, it was a pleasure. And I do hope to see. Well, I hope to hear from you first off, if you need an accountability buddy. And I hope to see that book on the shelves or online because you have a special case going for you.
So thank you.
Okay, everybody, stay tuned. And after the break, you'll hear a little bit more and we'll talk about what happened with Brian and how he found a better path to get to publishing.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: All right, welcome back, everyone, to Communication Makeover. My name is Todd Wahl, and again, we look for the intentional communication that leads to the breakthrough that you're looking for, both in your business and in your life. I'm loving this topic we're talking about today with, you know, every single one of us. I mean, I think majority of people I've talked to say, you know, people say I need to write a book. You know, we've got that burning inside of us of that message that has to come out. And as you've heard so far in the, in the bear, in the, in the conversation, there's a lot of barriers to think through of not only who can publish this book, and we saw the different avenues. But then how do I, if someone's not going to lead me through it, how do I then lead myself through this scary forest, through this maze and this labyrinth? How do I get to that ultimate outcome? It's confusing and it's scary. And oftentimes most of us, we end up with kind of putting stuffing that book down in that lower place. And ultimately we get to that place where, like, I feel embarrassed, I feel ashamed of myself. I feel like I had something inside me and I didn't share it with the world. So the encouragement of this episode today is an intentional path will lead to an intentional outcome because there's always barriers that stand in front of us, but there's always a path through or around those barriers. I'd like to bring Brian back on and Brian I'd like to continue this conversation with you a little bit because, Deirdre, you uncovered some great things in terms of which type of publisher and then even if you self publish, how do you motivate and what are some very tactical things you can do there?
I found that you found some really good things. But I ended up with a couple of questions, of key questions. One, one of the things that kept coming up is special. I kept hearing you say the content is special. There's something about it that's special.
I'd like to begin to talk through that ultimate motivator.
When people move past a hurdle, they run into a burning building, it's because there's a cause they're fighting for, what makes this special. So first off, talk to me. What is, what is the general idea of the book that's burning inside of you right now?
[00:38:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really about talking through how to navigate being a freelancer, a solopreneur independent contractor, as a equally viable career path compared to being a 9 to 5 full time employee or being a business owner in the traditional sense of, you know, starting a software company or running a couple pizza shops or whatever it may be. And really trying to illustrate the ways you can navigate as a professional and be a freelancer. And basing a lot of this on the stories of others that I look up to and have done really interesting things and built really dynamic careers in this space. And then also on my experience.
I've been freelancing for it'll be 12 years this June. And that's the special. I appreciate you kind of picking up on it. This is the book I wish I had when I was first considering this direction and saying, is this something I can do? Is this, you know, often freelance is thought of as like a stopgap or isn't taken as seriously. And I want to help folks navigate it on their own terms.
[00:39:27] Speaker C: Yeah, if I can paraphrase back to you, I hear you saying, you know, the traditional route, almost like that industrial mindset of, of getting in and working the factory, in essence that nine to five. But just like Robert Frost, he said to two roads diverged in the forest and I took the one less traveled by. It feels like you're shining a light on a path that's growing and more people need to know about. Is that correct?
[00:39:53] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. It's becoming more viable every year with technology, the way the economy shifting, the challenges of the job market. Like one thing that folks have always told me is like, oh, don't you feel like you don't have job security as a freelancer. And it's really. I don't wish this on anybody, but it's been interesting to see all the layoffs across tech, which has been a vibrant career option for many years and with a many circumstances at play in the US at least, layoffs have become more and more common and something where all of your professional and financial security is, is focused in on can be taken away without notice, without any wrongdoing of your, of yours. And I've been really lucky and through a lot of hard work as well, I found great career security and freelancing because you're getting your income and your creative output and collaboration from a variety of sources.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: So it sounds like there's a myth you want to dispel. There's a myth you want to dispel. Almost for sure. Myth of instability.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And just I was talking about this recently and like in school you're taught, you know, that you could potentially open a business or work at a company 9 to 5 and be a full time member of their team. Both are excellent career paths. And it's not to say freelance was completely shelved, but it just doesn't get the same airtime and I'd love to help kind of correct that with this book and most of all focus in on how to do it so you.
[00:41:41] Speaker C: Feel like it's more stable than people think it is. What's the other, what's the other thing you want people to know about this? The difference in these two paths of why this is an okay path to take. What's something else? If you, they had cancer and this is the magic pill. What's the magic pill?
[00:42:01] Speaker B: I think the most appealing aspect for most amount of people would be the flexibility that freelancing offers.
[00:42:09] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: It can be called independent contracting, being a solopreneur, whatever term you want to use, but you get to decide a lot of the circumstances of who you work with, what kind of work you provide, your pricing, the time of days you're working. Are you, are you meeting these clients or collaborators or whatever. Are you selling products on Etsy as part of your mix?
[00:42:32] Speaker C: You get all the truth.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. So flexibility is, is, I've, I've heard that again and again and again from folks in all different careers being like, ooh, you know, I want to be paid, I want to do valuable work and be appreciated for my work, but I also want to have some higher degree of control and agency. And without a doubt, freelance as a career path gives you a Lot of that flexibility.
[00:43:00] Speaker C: So what was the key thing that you would lead people to do in order to take that agency, that control? So they have that flexibility and they, they actually do have more stability than they thought. What's, how do they take control? How did you take control and what would you be recommending?
[00:43:18] Speaker B: I mean, a first step for anybody trying to go down the freelance path. Of course you do need some experience in a full time role first. Even if it's just a couple of years, it just doesn't typically come out of nowhere. But one of the best things you can do is publish your ideas in public spaces on a consistent basis. So whether that's letting people know about your expertise about pottery on Instagram as a side kind of hustle, or you're sharing your, your knowledge of semiconductors on LinkedIn and the kind of advancements, begin.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: To share that expertise.
Brian, can I shift with you just a little bit? Especially due to time.
Who needs to hear this and what are they feeling by being on that other path?
[00:44:13] Speaker B: People who know they have the ability to take stronger control of their careers, to build a dynamic professional life that reflects their dreams, aspirations and work ethic, they might be feeling that it's murky, impossible, difficult to navigate. I felt a lot of those feelings when I started, you know, almost 12 years ago. But without a doubt, just like any other career trajectory, there's a very clear cut path to follow. I hope in the book that I eventually write that'll be helpful for navigating that on your terms.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: What happens if they don't?
What happens if they just stay the path?
[00:45:05] Speaker B: That's okay too. I think you can find. I don't think I want to stress like, I don't think freelancing is for everybody or everybody has to go out and do this but yearning for more control.
[00:45:17] Speaker C: But for those, like you said, they're yearning for more control, they've got that message inside them, they've got that something, they know it's in, in them.
Tell me about that person. What happens if they don't do it?
Is it a dream deferred? Is it a, is it potentially going to explode inside of them?
[00:45:35] Speaker B: I think most freelancers or maybe even business owners, you know, owning a company or starting a company, they'll always say, I wish I had started sooner, I wish I had taken the leap sooner. And it's all about, at least from my perspective, is limiting the amount of regrets we have at the end of life. And I don't typically think of my career as pretty high I'll think mostly about my family and loved ones and all that kind of good stuff. But you don't want to have big, lingering regrets, and that's something I would call out.
[00:46:09] Speaker C: So let's say a thousand people read this book.
At the end of your days, if you were able to say, I helped a thousand people not live with regret, how would that feel?
[00:46:24] Speaker B: Comforting. Good. Then it made people happy.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
How would it feel to keep that feeling? Would it help you motivate past that accountability stage of getting this thing out there?
If you understood my goal is a thousand people to not live with regret anymore?
[00:46:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that could certainly help. On the days, especially when it gets harder, there's going to be points where it's easier than others to push through and be more accountable to myself and others. And I think that would be. Yeah, that would definitely help with the motivation on my end. So I don't have any regrets about not making this book to help others avoid regret. So reciprocal cycle there.
[00:47:10] Speaker C: I love that. I hope that was helpful. Thanks for being with us today, Brian. I mean, just talking through this puzzle that so many people deal with, from the publishers to motivation to ultimately, who are we fighting for? And was this beneficial for you today, Brian?
[00:47:30] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you for. For taking the time. It was interesting to hear it reflected back.
[00:47:35] Speaker C: Good. Thank you so much. All right, everybody, that's it for this week. Join us next week. I want to encourage you to be intentional, be courageous, and build your path of intentional communication. That is where you're going to get your breakthrough. We'll see you next week.
