Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hi, everyone, I'm Deirdre Breckenridge, and welcome to Communication Makeover. Here's the problem, and maybe you've experienced it because it's a biggie. You're on stage and all of a sudden you're presenting and you start to go off course and you veer off a little bit and find yourself in this big rabbit hole. You're lost. How do you get back? What are you going to do to get yourself back to your home base? Well, that's where the coaching process comes in. In this episode, my friend Martin Waxman, who is a digital marketing strategist, he's a professor, he figures out through coaching how he can get back, how he can do it with grace, make decisions and find a better way. So now you can tune in and be a part of the experience.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: What we're going to talk about today is how to really add more focus and not go off on tangents a little bit more. So first, talk to me a little bit about that problem. Where have you seen this occurring? What have you observed so far when you've seen this, this?
[00:01:28] Speaker C: Well, I think part of it goes to my attention span. And, you know, it's. I noticed it a lot during the early days of social media, but really it's before that. And what I tend to do is I'll be going along a track, I'll see something or hear something out of the corner of my eye, for example, which is little bit of a tangent. And then I'll go, oh, that's interesting. Go there. And then before I know it, I have to kind of wind my way back just to get back onto the point that I was trying to make. And sometimes it's really good. Those anecdotes are really good because they add color, they add flavor, they add a lot of perspective. Sometimes they're humorous. I like that. But sometimes they go on too long. And that's what I want to do. I don't want to lose it, but I want to be able to, in a way, control it more so that when I do veer off the side road for a second, I don't go down a path for 10 miles. And they go, oh, I gotta come back another 10 miles to get to where I was before. I want a quick detour.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Okay, Okay, I like that. That's a good picture. A quick detour.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: Quick detour.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Don't want to go. I like how you said, I don't want to go 10 miles in, which.
[00:03:00] Speaker C: Sometimes tend to do. And part of it is because part of it is, you know, whenever you are speaking, it's performative. There's a performative aspect. And my background is performance. So I did in college study acting. I also, a long, long, long, long, long time ago, was a comedian. Not a great comedian, but. So when I'm on stage or speaking.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: I like to.
I want to know that I can sort of capture people's attention in verse. And if you just go straight along the narrative, sometimes I find it doesn't necessarily work for me.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Okay, so. So with your acting background. So you're familiar with the yes and principle of improv comedy?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: I am, but no, just kidding.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: So. Yes. So you just proved it right there. Okay, so that. Yes and principle. And just for those Listen, listening right now, that yes and principle is how all improv comedy is structured. It's the primary rule of improv comedy. So that you never negate, you never disagree with someone. You just go, yes. And here's one level more outrageous in most situations. And it's just a flow scenario. So if I share anything from me understand it's just a suggestion and it's just a. Like we're trying something on from the mall. So I'm sharing. May share a cute blouse of some sort. And if it fits you, then great.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: I love malls, by the way. So that's one of my favorite places.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Fantastic. Let's keep. Let's keep going on down the adventure road just a little bit. Okay. So I. I think we were really onto something with this not going 10 miles down the road and. But just these quick little detours. Now the first thing my imagination went to. Do you like to travel? Do you like to drive much?
[00:05:15] Speaker C: Yes. It's funny you say that. So I've written a novel and a book of stories that I published. The second book is called Everything in Winnipeg Begins in a Car. It's all about fictional adventures. You know how driving is so important to. Well, I can speak for teenage boys long, long time ago. I can't speak for everyone, but yeah. So driving. And again, you know, you make that little turn or you try a different route. That's great. Much easier to get on without Google Maps because Google Maps likes to keep you going in one direction.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So it's better with. Without gps. Yeah. So when you. When you're in that environment, though, let's go to. Let's go to that Winnipeg driving environment.
So how do you know when to detour? A little stop or ooh, that looks exciting, but ooh, that may be too far down the road. How can you tell in that environment what's okay to take a detour and what's not?
[00:06:30] Speaker C: That's a. That's a really good question. I don't know if I do know exactly, unless there is a time constraint, like a really hard stop. So if I know I have to get to an appointment at 2:00 and it's 1:52 and I see something interesting, I will stay on the straight, narrow.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: I love that. That's beautiful. What else? House? What's another way, you know, I'm going to take a left at Albuquerque or I'm not.
That's a Bugs Bunny reference.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a tough one. So let me.
I guess if it's something that I haven't noticed before.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: I might have been. And again, this. This goes to whether I'm presenting or, say, driving, because the driving metaphor is a.
You're driving along and you have your certain route somewhere. In the same way that if you're presenting, you have, say, your slides. That's your route.
But then maybe you see something. Could be a line on the slide, could be a way that you perceive the image. Could be, maybe it's fall and you look up and there's a tree. Since we're talking in the fall, there's a tree that is just, you know, filled with these brilliant bright colors and go, oh, I didn't notice that. I wonder what's down here.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, that's good. So. So how else. Let's go back to the road and win Winnipeg. You're driving along. How do you know?
I want to take a right turn. I want to. I want to exit the high. How do you know when to do that and when? Like, ooh, that may be too much.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: You know, if I'm honest, probably a lot of it is just impulse, just in the second and then kind of, you know, trusting your gut, trusting your reactions, thinking, oh, boom, idea. I'm gonna go here.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Okay, so talk to me. Talk to me more about that. What? Let's go deeper. Let's go another layer deeper on impulse. How do you know when the impulse is good and how do you know when the impulse is bad? Because we have all kinds of crazy impulses. How do you know when it's a good one?
[00:08:51] Speaker C: I guess I probably. Some of the times I think I know, but I never know for sure. And maybe it's part of the danger of not knowing or the insecurity of not knowing, necessarily, whether this will work or not. Going back to improv you want to make sure that, you know, you're going down a route and someone else will pick up the thread.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: I think it's the same level of danger. You just don't know if they're going to pick up on the clues. You're just kind of going off. So you're. Are you saying that it's the element of. Of the. I don't know, that's exciting that draws you in or makes you hesitant? Is it. Is it. Which one would that be?
[00:09:37] Speaker C: Probably a little of both.
And, you know, it depends. And the element of surprise.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:45] Speaker C: Again, if you drive the same route over and over again, or if you're delivering the same talk or lecture over. You've done it a few times.
I think novelty is one of the. One of the elements that all humans are attracted to, novelty and surprise. And so, you know, it's a way of making myself more interested and hopefully conveying that to whoever I'm talking to.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Todd, I just loved how you got Martin to this awareness, a level of understanding. There was just something so magical about.
Took the experience on stage. And all of a sudden you opened him up to the driving and he could relate it to the book that he wrote. There's just something so interesting there. And this whole notion of the detour. Tell me what you were thinking when you were getting him to understand detour and smaller points versus going down that long rabbit hole.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I love that transition of how he began. You could almost feel his frustration of, you know, I see this out, like he was explaining add to us, and you could feel the anxiety of it. Like, I just see this one thing and all of a sudden I've got. I've got to go down that road. The principle I'm always looking for is where in their life do they already know how to do whatever this is? And I'm trying to figure out what's an area of anchoring that they already know the solutions to this. This problem. Because did you notice that even his tone of voice, once we started talking in the context of driving in Winnipeg, I mean, he was no longer. I've got to explain. Add to. He was assertive and he. He had a plan. He said, in this situation, it's this and then and that. Like, you did you feel his assertiveness and his direction? Like, do you feel him come under control at that point?
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Yes, I felt him coming together, finding his center and really navigating from a place of certainty as opposed. Oh, I'm going down a hole and I can't find my way back. Yes, I saw that transition.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's interesting because in real coaching, you can see, you know, a coach is really taking the clues off of the other person. And that's really. I was setting up with what I was. As I was describing coaching, I'm just going to offer suggestions, and let's just see how that reacts with you. And as soon as he mentioned he had that book, I was like, whoa. I mean, I'm glad I didn't immediately go, whoa.
But inside, I was going, okay, here's we go. I'm going to play my cards real calm, but we're now on a path now. So, Deirdre, stick with us and everybody watching here. This just gets better. Watch this coaching process as we go. Now we're just. We see him starting to feel control, but we're about to get into solutions. And him, it's going to go one level higher over and over again. That's a comedian's joke that I just stole. So, anyway, everyone stick with us. We're going to be right back.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome back. What you just saw is how we establish a vehicle of discovery now. It's that feeling of, if it's happened over here, then maybe it can happen over there. And now you can watch Todd as he helps Martin to uncover some important specifics that lead him down this road.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: So you went.
You went. You took a right turn to see the world's largest slice of pie.
And you got there. You said, that was the most amazing slice of pie I've ever seen. How do you get back?
How do you get back to your route?
[00:14:00] Speaker C: Well, that is, in a way, the challenge, because how do you get back in a way that makes sense and that doesn't take you so off track.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: That you know, if you're speaking about an audience, that your audience isn't going, what the. Exactly.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: So, yeah, keep me on the road. Keep me on the road here, because we're going to transition to the stage in just a minute.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: But keep me on the road. How do you. You've seen the world's largest slice of pie.
How do you get back to where you want to go? You said it's interesting because you don't want to go around. That takes you further. How do you get back to your original route?
[00:14:43] Speaker C: That is a really good question. And what just kind of occurred to me is what I do is turn around and literally double back. So you're covering that same distance twice, except the first time. It's novel. It's surprising. You're discovering things the second time you're going there. Oh, I got to go this way to get back.
And that might be. That's a really good one. That might be that point in the tangent that you've just. It's too long. It's. The road back is too long because I don't know if maybe I've gone too far or I've waited too long or I haven't figured out how to make that road back as interesting as the road there. And that's on me.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: So. So almost you don't want to go on so far of a. An adventure that you might get lost going back.
[00:15:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:44] Speaker C: And my sense of direction is bad anyway, except in malls. So.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a good chance because they're in a circle. Yeah.
Okay, so you. But I like that you don't want to go so far that you might get lost coming back. How else? So take me back to the world's largest slice of pie. What else are you thinking about? And how do I get back to the main road? Is there anything else?
[00:16:14] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe it could be, do I need to get back? Or if I keep going in this direction, can I go somewhere else and still get to the same place ultimately? Like, will the roads converge somewhere?
[00:16:30] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Of course they won't. Likely.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But are you saying that also you can kind of trust your. You can trust yourself in that moment to, like, I'm going to find it may be a new destination, but. But I'm capable of us.
I'm capable of getting the car to a good place.
[00:16:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Okay. I like that.
Okay.
Okay, let me. I'd like to.
I'd like to show you a couple things here.
And so here. Here's just a couple of our. Of the notes here.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: And this is just what you talked about on impulse. First off, is just. It's like. It's like I'm going to go off on that tangent. Just try. If I'm just trusting my gut, it's like, I think I know, but it also drew you to the danger of not knowing. And there's also the thrill of. The element of surprise, of, hey, I've been down this highway so many times. Ooh, what might I discover in this situation? There's this element of novelty that's also really exciting.
But then you talked about getting back, and I will turn around and just double back. That speaks to something. I don't want to go so far that you might get lost getting back. And I like what you Said, now do I need to get back that same way, or are we on a new adventure?
And this belief I'm capable of getting the car to a good place.
Okay, okay.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: So that part kind of got me.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Okay, talk to me about that. Talk to me about it.
[00:18:25] Speaker C: The idea of needing to get back and the whole idea of going on a new adventure and I guess the risks involved in that. Right. Because everything suddenly becomes a question mark or unknown if you go this different way rather than something that's tried and true. So on one level, your eyes or your pupils keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger as you go down this route. On the other level, you're going, whoa, wait a minute. You know, I don't want them to explode either. I've got to pull this back. So how do I pull that? How do I get that into balance?
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Can I mirror some things back to you really quickly?
[00:19:15] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: When you first stated the problem, I felt anxiety over or I saw anxiety over. I get on this tangent. I'm lost. I'm like, I don't know how to get back. And there was this, There's, I heard a fear of leaving the original road.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: But then when we talked about Winnipeg, there is adventure in leaving the, the real road.
[00:19:40] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Because I wanted to get out of there. With all due respect, everyone.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Respect. All due respect. And, and you'd say when you're driving, you're, you're an expert at drive, you're an expert at finding those adventures. You're an expert, would you say, at getting the car to a new and valuable destination? Would, would you agree with that?
[00:20:00] Speaker C: I don't know if I would say I'm an expert at getting them to a valuable destination. New. Yes, valuable. Yeah, valuable.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: But that's, that's part of the, that's part of the adventure.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: But, yeah, sometimes it is.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: But to a safe place, you're.
[00:20:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: You're good at getting into a safe place.
[00:20:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Now, I, if I can go young speaker versus old speaker, Young speaker, man, you've got to get your notes, you've got to get your path, and if you deviate from it, you're really not sure if you're going to be able to get, if you're going off on a good path, would that be fair? Like a new, a young authority, like, you may go off on adventure, but are you going to say something sound.
[00:20:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: Now, are you past that point?
[00:20:48] Speaker C: Oh, I think so. I think by the color of my hair, you can see I'm a little past that point. And yet being able to capture some of that novelty or that newness, if that's even a word, or, you know, the, the fact that you haven't seen something, you're learning something different or learning something new. And I guess that's part of being.
When we're younger, typically we were always learning. And when we're older, it's like, oh, I know, do this and that. So how. How can I keep learning? And maybe that's part of the whole Going off on a tangent, too. How can I. I learned something in addition to.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Absolutely.
I. You tell me. And I want to echo back to you, but when you said, I'm capable of getting that car to a good place.
[00:21:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Would it also be true that you're capable of getting a talk to a new place? That you may just discover something interesting and if you don't, it's probably also.
[00:21:59] Speaker C: Okay, that is interesting. So not feeling that I have to constantly come back to. I want to say script, even though it's not written, it's more of a talk because it's been done a number of times. Times. But coming back to that slide so I can go click next. Click, next. Click.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Speaker C: So maybe I almost nodded.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Man. Deirdre, how about that? That was. That was a fun adventure that I was on there with, with, with Martin.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Yes, it was. And I really like how you keep him on the road and you opened him up to new discovery about what it means.
Realize that there are other options. Todd, walk me through that process, because it's a fine line between the new discovery and a little bit of that danger zone.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: It was.
I think the path we were on is. Was a. A shift in beliefs that gave permission. The early belief was that if I, If I go off on a. On a wild tangent, people are gonna. I don't have permission to do that because people are gonna judge me according, like, like, I don't know where I' going. But there was a shift of. And you saw it in his face of a new belief of, you know what? I can get a car into a safe place. I can get a talk also into a safe place.
And when we looked at the notes, he's like, I felt that one.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: He did. You could see it on his face. He felt it. And I also liked how he realized he's learning too.
So as he's teaching others this new road and he's going to get back to a safe place, that it's not the same old click next that he can go and trust himself.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: You Know, and that was a big discovery moment of just stating the obvious. A lot of times this breakthrough comes from just stating the obvious in a way that they can go, oh yeah, I choose point choice A versus versus B, hands down, every time. So like when I said that young, when I paralleled the young speaker. Are you that young speaker? Well, no. And then he's like, oh, so I can do this. And it's like he felt something, I felt something shift in that moment.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: Well, there was definitely a shift in that moment. You could see it all over his face. And I think he's going to reevaluate what that getting back means. It's not doubling back. You don't have to go over what you did before permission is together. He's finding permission from the people that he's sharing with, but he's also giving himself permission. Did you see that too?
[00:24:57] Speaker B: I absolutely did. And we're going to see so much more of it. Even I think we're just at the tip. In fact, I know we're just at the tip of the iceberg on this conversation. He's just, you can actually visibly see him connecting the dots going, oh, oh, oh. I mean, you just like, you can read his face just like you're, you're reading a map. And we're now beginning to go in a new direction.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Well, I can't wait to see what Martin discovers when he uncovers the new direction and just continues on this path.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: All right, everybody stick with us. We got more in this conversation right after this.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Welcome back. Okay, well, now you can see the dots are coming together. It's a bigger picture. Light bulbs are turning on. And let's watch to see how the discovery continues with Todd and Martin.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so would you say that that's a, that's one aspect of this. Would you, would you agree that one aspect of if I. Sometimes I'm capable of us going on an adventure and it's okay to go on that adventure?
[00:26:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. I probably also, I'm torn by that obligation for the click next.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's also a yes. And reality, I think one I would lay out. What if this is. Isn't either? Or what if this isn't? I have to, I have to be a slave to the slides. What if I'm. What if you are expert enough to discover something with the audience?
[00:26:51] Speaker C: Oh, hey, that would be amazing. And also it means I'm listening.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah, it sounds.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: Would that make, would that mean it's two way conversation in essence, where we're on a journey together. Would that be a new belief about. About my presentation?
[00:27:11] Speaker C: I think, you know, I think I want to believe that always.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:20] Speaker C: And, yeah, you know, I'll say, oh, yeah, no, no, this is too. But the safety. Safety the one way. Because it's like the. Tried and true.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. And. And we're not. We're not going to that because you're right. There's a lot of safety there. But your face lit up when you said, oh, but there's an adventure that pulls me forward when you're driving.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: I'm wondering if the same is true here. And I'm just in curiosity mode.
[00:27:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, sounds like it is, but maybe it's, I don't know. Fear. Yeah, that's kind of.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: I heard when you wrote, I'm capable of getting the car to a good place, to me, that felt like a new belief.
How would you state that on a stage situation where it could be just an element of a new belief?
How would you restate that?
[00:28:27] Speaker C: I think in, say, a presentation setting, it would be.
I'm able to be open enough to let a new idea change my perspective.
Something.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Okay, gotcha.
Now, when we're driving, there's signposts that also tell to the person riding with us, hey, do you guys. Do you ever ask permission, like, when you're with somebody, do you mind if we take a tangent real quick?
[00:29:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: Do you usually clarify or you just take the car and go, no, no.
[00:29:07] Speaker C: I'll say, if I'm with someone, I definitely say, hey, do you mind? Okay, okay. I think I see where you're going with this.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: Tell me what you. What just connected.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: So rather than just going on a tangent, when I see it, if I'm speaking. Yeah. It's really a matter of bringing the people I'm talking to along and saying, hey, what do you think about doing this? And then making an assessment or a judgment saying, okay, they're interested. Let's try it. And then. And then suddenly it's more of something that we're doing together rather than something that I'm going, all right, I'm turning here. Well, why are you doing that? I'm just doing it. I see something.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Okay, let's get real intentional with that real quick. How would you want to say that if you were to had a phrase just like. Because you see the same signs on the road every time. So you know. Exactly. It says scenic turn off. So you see that really quickly and you go, oh, that's a scenic turn off. I'm going to turn off. How would you want to say that? So that every time your audience knows, hey, he's asking for permission for us to go somewhere. He's not just being the crazy professor from Back to the Future.
He's intentional here. How could you ask permission? What's a natural way for that to come out of your mouth?
[00:30:47] Speaker C: One is just to be direct. Maybe. Okay, say, hey, you know what? I just thought of something. Or maybe, hey, you know what? Let's look at this in a different way. What if almost like going to the. Yes. And hey, you know, we're here now. What if we try this? Or what if we do this? Or what if we looked at this a different way? Something like that.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, I like that. I. I like that.
And you're inviting them on just a little bit of an adventure the same way you. When you're driving the car.
[00:31:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Okay, now that you've said that once, how would you say it again?
So I'm the audience in front of me. You see something, you see that shiny object? How do you invite me to go over there?
[00:31:32] Speaker C: Okay, now you're asking me to improvise, you know.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Exactly. Well, no, what we're doing is we're pre planning.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: And so we're pre planning in a safe environment. So it's. Well, what could that phrase sound like to you?
[00:31:47] Speaker C: Phrase could sound like, you know, I feel like I'm stuck at, hey, you know what? Let's look at this from a different perspective. Or maybe it's just, I have an idea. Hey, I've got an idea. What about. What do you think of this? You know?
[00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:05] Speaker C: And maybe it's a matter of engaging. People say, look, we're talking about X, Y, and Z, or Z, as we say up here in Canada.
What do you think if we go back to the beginning of the Alphabet or go to the middle of the Alphabet or something like that? Not completely add in a whole other metaphor to what we're talking about.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: You know, just like when you're driving, hey, you know, hey, can we go off on a. Can we take the turn off for a minute? Or hey, what. Do you mind if we go on a tangent just for a second and a pause?
Just something short like that. Not a lot of explanation. Because they're not going to give you any rebuttal.
[00:32:47] Speaker C: No, they're not.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: All you're doing is giving a clear sign.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: Right.
Do you think like. And I want to ask you, I know you, I have an idea. What you're going to say, but do you think it's okay to say, I don't know where we're going to go, but let's try it.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: Did you hear me do that at the very beginning?
[00:33:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So as long as people understand the rules, the road, the rules of the road, they're going to be comfortable. They just don't want to feel lost.
[00:33:20] Speaker C: Right. And it's that. And of course, if I feel lost.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:33:25] Speaker C: You're going to sense that.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: And that's that. Oh, double back. Long route back. I guess we made a mistake, you know, like, why did I do this? Rather than making it intentional.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: There we go. And did you see the face, my face. When the. The recording froze?
Do you see the dots again? Now we're getting so practical on this. What. What did you notice in. In the. In this. The first clip?
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Well, I noticed that Martin went from a fear to. Oh, it's okay.
We. We can go down this road. Oh, wait. And even to the point where he knows how to introduce it to his audience and that everybody's going to learn together. I think there's such an aha Moment. That's a magic moment.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: Yes, it is a magic moment. And I think the critical moment was he even constructed this as part of his discovery phrase. But we began with what if? And the beginning a question with what if is a permission thing. We're not talking about reality. And you notice how often I take him from reality to. Like he said, he got stressed about improvising. No, no, we're just in a safe place. What would it. What might it. What if you had one? But this. What if it creates a thinking environment? Did you notice you could see his wills turning. It wasn't just like, you know, you're having a conversation with someone and they're just nodding. I wasn't just talking and he was nodding. He was. He was thinking. Okay. And like, his vocal tones were. And at one point he goes, oh, I see. Oh. And like you. He, like, he's like. It startled him for a minute when the dots. Can dots begin to connect even more?
Talk to me a little bit about. Did you notice being willing to have just a break in sound, allowing space. Talk to me what you saw about the space to allow him to think. I asked him a question one time, and he just paused and there was just silence for a bit. What are your thoughts there?
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Well, I was reading his body language and that pause. So that, of course, vocally he took the pause, but you could See the contemplation in his face and he really was working through in his mind what those next steps of discovery were going to be. And you helped him to put those pieces in place because there was a level of comfort and excitement because as soon as you get this surge of energy through your body and we saw it, whether it was Martin leaning in or. Or how his expression changed, it was there. And that discovery is just such an important moment and only a coach can bring this out. That was really good.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And we see some of those very specific tactics, like when you put it in a different context of like the sign for the detour, it's obvious it's the same sign every single time. That's how we know what's going to happen next and how he built out. Okay. And we had to work through that, of course. And we'll continue to. Even in the working out. Did you notice how I asked him a second time and it got a little bit more clear and I think that's a great coaching technique. I could even ask one more time. Okay, what's. If you said it one more time so that just like the sign on the side of the road, it's the same sign every single time.
I also like the dots that connected when I said, do you just. When you see something interesting, do you just go or do you ask their permission? Oh, no, I always ask their permission.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: That's right. And asking that permission, whether it's the person in the car next to you or you're on stage and you're talking to 500 people and that. What if we just took a little detour? What if we explored together. I'm not sure where it's going to go.
That's setting up that discovery. The. It can be here and it can be there.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. So let's keep watching. And in the next segment, it's going to go. We've gone from ambiguous and broad and discovery. We're getting more detailed. More detailed. Let's see how concrete. In fact, in this next clip, you're going to see a shift in his identity take place right in front of us. Not in that crazy psychological way, but let's just see what happens. Stick with us.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Okay. Well, we've seen Martin, with the help of Todd, move from the very broad and the big picture into the specific discovery. And now let's just watch to see how it all comes together.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: So let's go to the. Let's go to the world's largest pie again. And we've seen, we've Seen the site. Yeah, that's right. Me too.
So we've seen. We've seen the site. You made that. That the. The point you're like, okay, that was either exciting or not exciting. Either way, it's time to get back. So now. Now we're turning back around.
How can you either double back like you said and go back back to the slides or choose your own new adventure? At that point, you have the option of both. If the route. You said, if the route back seems too long, I may try to find a different route.
[00:39:27] Speaker C: So.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: So take me to that place where you. Okay, you've turned back around.
How do you. How would you verbally talk yourself back to the slides, to the safety of the click and slide?
[00:39:45] Speaker C: I'm not sure yet, really.
I guess trying to improvise or tell another story, like try to make that linker connection.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:40:02] Speaker C: Or find that linker connection.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: What about the clear signposts? Just like we did when we went to the.
We went to.
I mean, because when you turn back around from the Big Pie, you're looking for the highway is this direction.
[00:40:17] Speaker C: Right?
[00:40:17] Speaker B: And then you go, okay, we're on. We're on the right route. We're safe again. You recognize that? I took a deep breath feeling.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: How.
[00:40:27] Speaker B: Can you be a highway sign? So they know, okay, we're not lost anymore.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: Can you rephrase that?
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Sure. So the same way you saw the scenic route that says, okay, we're gonna go off in a tangent, so, hey, or let's. Hey, do you mind if we go on an adventure real quick? Okay, when we go down our little adventure, what could you say that tells them you've turned back around and we're safely heading back to the highway?
[00:41:03] Speaker C: Well, again, I think you can be a bit direct or say, hey, okay, you know, we're going back now, and so let's unpack what we just saw, let's talk a little bit about what we saw. And then through some of that, again, trusting the people you're talking to and trying to help you get back.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: Okay, so talk to me about that. How does it feel when you say, do you feel in control? I saw control on your face when you said, I think just being direct.
Did you feel in control with that?
[00:41:36] Speaker C: Yeah, because suddenly you're being honest. And every time you're honest, I think every time we're honest, we have the potential of building a bond of trust.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. So you were honest in leaving the road, and you're also. And you were direct with leaving the Road. So now you're also honest and direct going back to the road.
[00:42:00] Speaker C: Right.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: Because you just laid out. You also laid out two different ways just as you were talking through it. And I just want to lay this out, just maybe it may rule one out completely.
You laid out two. Two routes. One, you, you just laid out the honest, direct route. And I, and I saw that on your face. You liked that.
[00:42:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: The other route was, you know, we could, I could tell another story. I could. That sounded like another tangent.
[00:42:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: And it sounded like you were searching and you were lost.
[00:42:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: So do you want to keep that in the arsenal or do you want to remove that? That.
[00:42:36] Speaker C: I think that's one that can.
[00:42:38] Speaker B: Okay, so we can pull that. How do we make sure that we're direct?
So we take yourself to that anxiety moment. I just made maybe the joke of the century going off on the tantric on that tangent or the point of the century going off in that tangent. I turn around, I'm tempted to feel lost. How do I not feel lost? How do you not feel lost and know we're going in this direction?
[00:43:07] Speaker C: Well, again, I think it comes down to honesty rather than pretending that you're not lost and going, okay, I gotta find something new to talk about. Another piece of pie or, you know, the biggest sandwich in the world. Yeah, yeah, something like that. I've got to find it. I don't know where it is. So let's just keep going by being a little bit more direct and honest. All of a sudden you're letting presenters in on what you're feeling and you're hopefully sharing that with them. So that again, it becomes more collaborative, more two way, as you mentioned before.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: I like the directness part because that's something and could be my midwestern background that, you know, it's like you don't talk my don't say. Whereas if you're direct, you're showing vulnerability potentially and you're saying, I don't know. But hey, this is what we're gonna try. And there's a certain danger with that. So there's a lack of control there. Even though you said, you know, being direct, you have control, but feels like you don't.
[00:44:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so getting off on the tangent and then back to the highway, it sounds like you've decided, been honest, direct communication. Hey, can we go off on. Is it okay if we exit and a question mark and then, okay, here's the highway sign, let's get back. Even if it means pausing and clicking a minute Is it okay to pause and click a minute? Because we all know, hey, we're looking for the highway sign.
[00:44:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Speaker C: Yeah, that. That's good. That gives me a different way of looking at it, that's for sure. Because I. I don't feel so much is just on me as the driver to get us all the way to say. And I don't have to feel like an apologist, in a way, for trying something different.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
[00:45:14] Speaker C: Just, hey, we're trying this. We're in this together. Well, that wasn't so great. But, hey, let's. There you go.
[00:45:21] Speaker B: That' it turns out the world's biggest piece of pie wasn't that big in the first place.
I like that. So let's keep talking. Let's backtrack a little bit more. What new belief do you feel like you've discovered in this moment?
[00:45:40] Speaker C: I think the new belief is that I can give myself the permission to be honest and not to feel like I have to necessarily know everything about the root, about where we're going, about how to get back, but that if I'm honest, we'll be able to work together to get back and hopefully find a new path that maybe is even more interesting that, you know, I can go on again.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: I like that.
It almost sounds like a new identity.
So it's almost like you've taken on a different Persona. That anxiety at the beginning was. Was the. The nutty professor from. From Back to the Future, like, Marty. Oh, well, where are we going? I don't know. We're lost. I'm gonna throw banana peels in the car and see if it powers things. And if I felt that fear of being that person.
[00:46:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: So who's. Who's the new. Who's the new Martin that is going like, okay, hey, you go. You want to go on a little adventure together? Who's. Who's the new Martin?
[00:46:48] Speaker C: I.
I think the new Martin's a bit like the old Martin, but just more honest and direct.
I like that about the uncertainty. So you're sharing the uncertainty and encouraging other people to jump on and share their uncertainty. Because, again, that's how we learn. If all we do is like, I know this, I know this, I know this. We don't see anything new. Whereas if we step back and ask questions and just open our eyes wider, we can hopefully see and. Or learn something different and go on a different type of adventure.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: I think adventure is the key word.
[00:47:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: With what we discovered today, do you feel like we're walking. You're going to be able to walk into a new adventure with the people that are listening, listening to you.
[00:47:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm going to try it next week in class when I teach, see how it goes. I'll have to get back to you on that.
[00:47:50] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Experiment. And that's the nature of coaching. It's just these small, little incremental changes and little adaptations. The same way when you're driving in. In Winnipeg and discovering something new. But do you feel the power of what was true? There is also true here.
[00:48:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. It's a great analogy.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: You probably already know how to do this, don't you?
[00:48:16] Speaker C: I don't know. I think I do.
[00:48:19] Speaker B: But I see it on your face.
[00:48:22] Speaker C: Great stop sign, right? You see fear. It's like, okay, so you got to get beyond that, too, and just, you know, be a little uncomfortable. Again, going back to your improv example, it's all about being uncomfortable, but going with the flow.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Because we're not following a script. They're. They're like. They're just saying at the beginning, hey, let's see where this thing goes.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Boy, did it go. That was so good, Todd. I just love the way everything came together and the expression, and we see.
[00:49:01] Speaker B: Just what the power of coaching can do. Because at the end, what did you learn? He knew exactly what he learned. He wasn't reciting me talking at him and him regurgitating, repeating anything back. He was at a new location in his life at that stage. And you, even with the anxiety of, well, let's see, he had something really tangible to go forward with.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: He did, because he realized that he likes honest, direct. It's okay to be vulnerable, that curiosity. Go along with everybody. Everyone learns together. And if you put that together, that's adventure.
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, you know, it's like when we talked about, you know, the rules of the road, give the people the rules of the road. He learned new rules for the road. That honesty thing, even. Even talking about getting back to the slides, it's okay to go. Okay, now let's go back. Let's see, where were we? Anybody remember? We were okay. We're in this together. Ah, that's where we were. And the feeling of permission that even that is okay. So the adventure that they're on is the adventure that you're on. And I love that you've been on this adventure with us. Thank you for just peeking into this. The curtains with Martin and I. And we invite you every week to do this with us. So coaching is power. And we're going to show that and showcase that for you. We'll see you next week.
Week.
